Should I give him some space? (Meat or Potatoes? Written by Max and Lloyd) Posted by:Lloyd Woodward--Tuesday, November 23, 2010

More and more we are hearing parents ask us this question. My son's therapist says I should give him some space. At PSST you tell us to do he opposite. How do I know whose advice to follow?


Excerpt:  "But, I said I've been trying things my way for about 4 years now, and no good has come of it. It is time to take a leap of faith and do things a different way". It was scary for me because I assumed I was giving up all of my control - but in fact I gained more by hovering less." (Max)

I'm not saying that the focus at IOP (Intensive Outpatient) and the focus at PSST isn't a bit different. Of course our approach and their approach is a little different; I think of us as two different circles or two different schools of thought. Still, our circles overlap more than they don't.

At our last meeting a parent asked this question; however, it was at the very end of the meeting and time did not permit a complete response. I then had an email exchange with Max, a PSST mother that helps clear up our stand on the "IOP Give him some space" and the "PSST Hold him accountable" positions.

First, Max's reply to my email expressing concern that perhaps I was a bit pushy when I gave her some ideas on her Son's relapse and hoping I wasn't too assertive when I asked her to do a role-play. We had a large meeting and I just wanted to squeeze a little role-play in so that we could get back to sharing and Max agreed to help me out. I was worried that I bullied her into participating :-(

Max to Lloyd

Lloyd,


Thank you so much for this note, as I am in full-blown WIS syndrome at the moment!

I totally respect and appreciate everything you have to say and opinions offered. I was very down yesterday, but not so much because of you and doing a role-play. Michael has been doing so well for a good stretch, and obviously, it hurts when he falls.  My husband, Mel, and I agree that there needs to be a substantial response to the relapse.

We agree with much of what you suggested. However, we will modify a bit as we see fit for Michael and his particular personality and circumstances.

Today he is meeting with his mentor, tonite his NA meeting, and tomorrow his Probation Officer. Car privileges are gone for now, and we are revisiting the contract. He will talk to his therapist when she returns on 11/30. Most important to me, he feels bad and scared and he will have to sit with that for a while.

Just so you know, one of the most valuable things you told me yesterday was probably one of the simplest ideas. One problem I have is when the kid is (obviously to parents) lying. We point out "but it couldn't have been that way; if it had, it would be such and such". Of course the kid gets more defensive and doesn't have the nerve to come clean. I think Mel and I are too stuck on what the actual circumstances were. So when you said "it doesn't much matter if his version is accurate or not - he is clearly hanging out with the wrong kids, so revisit the contract". THAT made huge sense to me,and it is something I have no issue addressing. I have found that I must be 100% confidant in what ever I am going to do or I won't be able to enforce it properly.    [ Lying post]

We don't always have to do exactly what is suggested, either. We can tweak things to fit our family, our ability to carry things out, and our kid's personality. Sometimes parents are torn - which way to go, therapist or PO? (good title for a post) - I really feel (at least this is true for me) that a combination of GOOD IDEAS AND INFORMATION works best. Sort of like when you have one spouse who is very black and white, and the other who may be more emotional and wants to talk things out more. The combination is golden.

So, I like PSST because it presents the more black and white, concrete ideas that will help when dealing with the kid's behavior. I use the Gateway therapist to sound off more on the disease, and her opinion of using behaviors and signs to look out for. I then like to make a stew, and have both meat and potatoes to offer. Probably my husband would do ONLY what PSST suggests, but I see no harm in augmenting ideas with more info.

So, you pushy SOB, you haven't frightened me. Your input is always appreciated, and I will be there next meeting! Have a great holiday

Max


Here is Lloyd back to Max:

Max,

Hahaha I enjoyed reading this. Thanks and of course we encourage people to make a stew and yes you and Mel are the Resident Experts on Michael  :-)

I am writing a post on "Give Him Some Space" verses "Hold Him Accountable."  My theory is that there are two circles or schools of thoughts. They are different; however the circles overlap more often than people realize. For example, the nagging parent needs to give their kid some space. The over-controlling parent needs to give their kid some space. To me that doesn't mean you start letting the kid make life-threatening or recovery-threatening choices; however, both IOP and probation don't think that nagging and trying to control every issue e.g., whether or not he returns his girlfriend's phone messages is worth the effort.

You will remember that at PSST we caution about ways to approach the Oppositional Teenager. We know that the more you nag, lecture, advise, or try to reason with your teenager the more they likely they will be to put up a wall. If we could reason with our kids and if that worked there would probably be no need for PSST because the whole lot of us are pretty reasonable people.

Sometimes the parent who is not giving the kid any space (nag nag nag and lecture) isn't holding the kid accountable at all. On the other hand, sometimes the parent who is enforcing limits with the kid is giving him a lot of emotional space- i.e., no lectures, no nagging, no "reasoning" The parent who is giving the teen that kind of emotional space knows that none of that helps- it just pushes teens away and puts up walls.

Another good example of possible overlap is the GED verses the High School Diploma. Parents love to weigh in on this one and there are strong values at play. Why not give the kid some space? A teenager can be successful either way. A teenager can stay clean either way. Lots of parents will not give their teen any space with this one. But see, the parent who is all fired up on the GED-isn't good enough thing might be the same parent who when it comes to who the kid associates with let's him go with Johnny So and So who is known to drink and do drugs.

"Give him some space, he has to make some mistakes," the GED-isn't good enough parent might say. But their kid is coming out of a rehab! HELLO! Sorry, if IOP says give him some space on that one but I beg to differ.  We know too much about the consequences of that bad decision. So, here you have parents not giving space on the GED-isn't good enough thing but giving space on the drug-abusing peer situation. One is life- threatening, one is not.

In summary, while there are differences between the two circles there are big overlaps. Huge ones. Both circles recommend that the parents give a kid some space. It's more a question of give him space about what? These teens have to find themselves as individuals. They can not just be little Mini-Mes of the parents. They actually have to find something to rebel about. It's important that they rebel. Having a tattoo or not might be a good way actually to rebel, all the better that it drives a lot of parents crazy.

Back off I say and give the teen some space. Let him make some bad decisions and learn from those bad decisions. Just don't do it on the life-threatening bad decisions. He'll have plenty of time to make those life-threatening bad decisions once he moves out and is on his own.

Anyway, I liked your email. If it helps my post do you mind if I use your email? I could use your pen name or I could just leave it from an anonymous parent?

Lloyd

Max to Lloyd #2

Lloyd,

Quote away, I say! Or, just plagiarize if you must!

I totally and completely agree with all below. Here is what I have experienced in IOP. When the therapists say "back off and give a kid space", they mean exactly what you do. For example, they just told one of the parents to back off, give her daughter space. You can see by how this parent explains her situation, that she nags incessantly and tries to control [everything]. I have been there and heard how and what and why they are saying 'back off" to her. I'm afraid that she doesn't understand what they mean in full, and she refuses to try, or is so afraid of "giving in." So, she gets angry and feels like a "bad parent" when she is at Gateway.

Perhaps if the counselors said "back off in areas of school and dress, etc, but take control when it comes to dangerous situations" it would be better understood. Or, perhaps they are more liberal in the "let them fall on their face" quote than you are. But I think you overlap as you said more than not. That is why your post will be important.


When parents feel that they can and should control SOMETHING, they feel better. Likewise, when they realize it isn't their place anymore to check five times on the homework, it can be a relief. There are some parents, who refuse to look at their own personalities and behaviors as things that should be tweaked a bit, in order to have better control in their home. I know real change came in our family when I changed some habits that I thought I never could or would change. But, I said "I've been trying things my way for about 4 years now, and no good has come of it. It is time to take a leap of faith and do things a different way". It was scary for me because I assumed I was giving up all of my control - but in fact I gained more by hovering less.

Which brings me to GED vs. diploma. One of the most difficult and painful things that I went through was adjusting my brain to what Michael was really all about academically. Yes, he is adopted. But I thought "by osmosis, he will have the same desire to learn and go to college and read and be like us". I have gone from pushing him in advanced classes (he has a gifted IQ - so what!) to telling him to go get his GED if that's what he wanted. I really mean it too - it is his life, not mine, and if he "makes a mistake" by not graduating, it's his mistake and it will be up to him to do the work needed for a GED or whatever else. One thing is for sure - that is not a life and death risk.

The Great OZ has spoken. Quote away, I say! Or, just plagiarize if you must!

MaxLloyd to Max #2

Thanks Max; I like your analogy of the meat and potatoes. Some people can't stand it when their food touches on the plate. They want to keep everything neat and separate. This is the meat, this is the vegetables and over here we have the main course, yummy meat. Oh look out! The meat and vegetables touched! Oh no!

Well, this parenting thing and getting treatment and advice from different places sometimes gets a bit messy. Sometimes the one touches the other. And also there is more than one way to skin a kid. And teenagers are different too. So, make a stew and if that's working for you, we don't argue with success at PSST. If on the other hand, things aren't working out the way you think they should, we'll help you make a stew that might work a little better.


Lloyd
Note on being in charge at home:

There is one other area of possible difference although I think it's more a difference in emphasis. At PSST we believe that there are some things a parent does to maintain a position of power. These things may or may not have to do with things that lead to drug abuse, but sometimes parents maintain a certain stance just because.

That's not to say that the stance should be crowding the teenager. We don't believe, as is said above in that approach. Hovering, nagging, making every minute a teaching moment, having the last word all the time, that's not what we are talking about. On the other hand, getting up in the morning is a good place for a parent to assert that they indeed are in charge. You can read about our recommended approach here. If your teenager has a drug problem then it's important to make sure that he gets up in the morning. If he doesn't have one or if he is in recovery it is still a good idea.

There are two things at play here: one, whose in charge? And two, if a teenager sleeps in in the morning then he will be up at night. Who supervises at night? If your house is like most people's house the parents sleep at night. Also, a lot of addicts will tell you that the urges to do drugs are stronger at night. There you have it. Still, rather than contradict what we said above it compliments it. If you are clearly in charge, then it's easier to back off and let your teen have some space. If your teen is in charge then it is very difficult to give him some space and instead parents tend to nag, hover, obsess EXACTLY because they are trying to compensate for not being in charge.

Being the one in charge has more to do with boundaries and knowing the areas in which you are NOT COMFORTABLE. It's not about over-controlling the youth.

Some people argue that if the teenager sleeps in and then has to suffer the consequences of bad grades for not showing up in school or not showing up in school on time then that will suffice. Perhaps. But if you have a teenager recovering from drug abuse he might relapse before he gets the bad grades. Perhaps at IOP they advise you to let your teenager sleep in and suffer the consequences for that. That has been known to work with some teenagers. I disagree for our teenagers. For other teens that may not have an abusive relationship with drugs I think that might work; however, I still feel that it makes sense to have a rule that teens get up perhaps with exceptions on the weekend if your teen is doing OK in other areas. Even with that example, we don't recommend nagging them incessantly to get up. Just have a good system and stick to it. Once you have a good system there is much less nagging.

So, there is room for healthy disagreement here. We believe that parents should be in charge.  Nature abhors a vacuum so if there isn't an adult in charge then a teenager will be.  Still, it should be done with understanding that you can't control everything and that even if you could you wouldn't want to do that.  Teens must rebel, they must be able to make some bad decisions and thats how they find out who they really are.

Good questions to ask yourself:
How does your teen rebel?  Is there an acceptable outlet for that?

Can you back off when it comes to decisions that are not drug / alcohol related and are mostly about the teenager rather than something that affects the whole family?

Can you let your teen make some decisions, knowing that some of them will look like bad ones?

Do you tend to nag a lot?

Do you have long lectures?

Do you feel that every moment needs to be a teaching moment?

Do you have to prove to your teenager that you are right all the time?

Do you spend time with your teenager where you are not dealing with control issues?

Your teenager should be right sometime. Perhaps you could be wrong. That's OK depending on what the circumstances are. Perhaps your recovering teenager wants a new sponsor. Maybe you liked the old one. Perhaps your teen wants a new girlfriend and you liked the old one. His decision- UNLESS the new sponsor doesn't go to meetings and doesn't work the steps. UNLESS the new girlfriend smokes weed a lot.

Perhaps your teenager wants a tattoo. Maybe you should consider this as an acceptable way to be a rebel. UNLESS, the tattoo is really way to large or UNLESS the tattoo is on the face, the hands, or the neck.  UNLESS the tattoo is a marijuana leaf. But to have a rule that there are no tattoos, just says to the teenager that they have to find some other area in which to rebel OR just be defiant and go get that huge marijuana leaf on your chest!

Of course if your teen is allowed to make other bad decisions and fail at those then the tattoo might not be the way that you as a parent allow them some space.  Maybe you just can't live with that.  That can be OK also. Maybe they have to wait until they are 18 for that tattoo.  The bottom line is pick your spots. Pick the areas where you give them space. Pick the areas where you are non-negotiable.

Enforce rules.  Everything can't be about warnings.  Have consequences that fit the violations.  Don't use more power than you need to make your point.  "If you have a rule enforce it.  If you are unable or are unwilling to enforce a rule- don't have it." (Gregory Bodenhamer, author of BACK IN CONTROL).

Probably now the food on the plate is all mixing in. Ok, make a stew then cause it's all going to the same place anyway!

Related Post: What to Do When Your teenager beats you up with words from his therapist.

Share